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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Feb 21, 2011 7:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Sure Dead.Net - Happy Birthday Vince? Seriously, has any member of the band been so unanimously and singularly hated by both band and audience alike. The GD couldn't get away from this poor fellow fast enough and his Crazy Knife-Wielding paranoid finale is a sad conclusion to a bizarre chapter in the Band's various incarnations. Awful summer auditions led to a rushed and half baked idea that really only found brief justice and meaning in Mr. Hornsby's addition. Vince had the chops but his vocals never jelled and he never brought a different sound to the table like Pig, TC, Keith and Brent all did. The Hornsby/Welnick duo was a wash of colors and sound that often overwelmed the subtle licks of Weir and Garcia. Like a wall of Keyboards they prefer to play every note imaginable and leave nothing to silence. Like they had to get it all in. It takes a strong musician to Not Play in every opening and every change.

Anyway, I never liked the Vince years and neither did the Band it seems so why fool us with this Happy Birthday stuff?? Making up for lost time now???

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Poster: august_wst Date: Feb 22, 2011 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

The Dead don't play with T.C. anymore either...

I would never say they hated the guy, as a matter of fact he played in a few of the side projects after the band ended things.

He may not have been their first pick, but Jeeeezus have a little respect for the dead. The guy had some problems and he sought a permanent solution to them. It's sad, but I am not sure it's worthy of using a colorful drapery in your imagery.

just my opinion

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Poster: ice9freak Date: Feb 22, 2011 6:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

So is the rumor true, i.e. that Vince tried to take his own life on Bobby's bus and was evermore ostracized by most of the GD inner circle? Vince's website tells a very sad story, but any sensible reader has to take bias into consideration. I hope it's not true, but if it is, well, cripes..

Vince has never bothered me all that much, but I also came of age during his tenure with the band, so there's some bias for ya.

Happy Birthday, Mr. Welnick. And rest in peace.

This post was modified by ice9freak on 2011-02-22 14:10:56

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Feb 22, 2011 6:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

That's the story I've heard. Let's not forget that Vince was also quite sick. He was diagnosed with cancer and emphysema just before the final tour -- not a happy prognosis. Then Jerry died. I don't blame him for falling into depresssion.

He was certainly not the Dead's best keyboard player, but all of the shitting on his grave that goes on around here is really nauseating. Let the poor man rest in peace.

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Poster: Roberts Mark Date: Feb 22, 2011 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

I am in complete agreement. While Vince was not my favorite member of the GD, I still enjoyed many shows after he joined the band. And I know for a fact that MANY other people enjoyed the shows too. It's what we had and we graciously took what they gave us as we always did over the years with the Grateful Dead. Sometimes shows were great. Sometimes shows were not so great. Jerry could sound great and Jerry could sound terrible. It was all part of the ride that many of us were on for such a long time. I am finding all these negative comments about Vince to be very depressing. Let the man rest in peace. I don't understand why people have to be so negative around the GD and Furthur and things not being what they once were or what they could have been. Why can't people just enjoy something for what it is or leave it alone and not try to convince others that what they feel is the only right thing? My philosophy is not to bad mouth stuff that I don't like or understand because life, art, reality, and all the things that make this world an interesting place are subjective and people are entitled to feel what they feel without being chastised by others who believe that what they think is all that really matters.

To me, all this negativity really shows how much the GD scene and community has changed over the years since I first started going to GD shows in the late 70s. It used to be about love, respect, adventure, and a collective spirit with all the diverse intricacies that go with that. Times have really changed.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 22, 2011 5:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

O.K. I'll bite. So we can have subjective opinions as long as we don't express them for fear of offending someone's positive energy? Where exactly does that line lie? I find this line especially regrettable,

>"My philosophy is not to bad mouth stuff that I don't like or understand..."

How can you explore without honesty and truth?

>"...people are entitled to feel what they feel without being chastised by others who believe that what they think is all that really matters."

In order for certain folks to feel properly, and are a protected from free speech, others must forfeit some free speech rights? You can not have it both ways. Free speech or not?
If you don't like the VW, or late era GD vibe here, then try change it or accept that this forum has a heavy bias for the first 15 years of GD. I like '90 and have posted '95 shows without any problem.
It's always good to keep in mind when beginning a thread is honey always gets more then vinegar. And don't forget Mama always said to say thank-you.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Feb 21, 2011 10:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

That's some cold-hearted shit right there.

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Poster: derf315 Date: Feb 22, 2011 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

And this surprises you ?

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Feb 22, 2011 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Not at all, Fred.. just calling it like I see it. The band's decline was about 20% Vince (mostly a tone issue), 20% Bob (someone hide his MIDI please!) and 60% Jerry. And clearly Jerry's share got higher as the years went on.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 22, 2011 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Capt., that is a cold, cold heart in some of your words in your post. But, it's your take and you didn't wussy around. So be it.
To say that I did not enjoy VW tenure w/GD would be a gross understatement. He had only two musical additions that I liked, tubular (no pun) bells and his back up vocals on FotM. I won't go into the long list of aggravating musical subtractions, some of which have already been mentioned. There are few shows I listened to during his 'era'. All of them have a strong Garcia presence and VW is (consequently?) muted.
That written, I did not know VW outside of his time on stage and had no opinion of the man. (How could I?)I did not know of VW health struggles during the '90's till this morning.
I keep coming back to this imagery of the GD, or maybe Mega-GD, as a pack of wolves. Keep up (look at BM), cause if you don't the trail is a lonely place out here. I have not witnessed too many people of fame and notoriety who have not had a hardened attitude to what they come to regard as impediments to their continued success. Maybe they get handlers to fire their long term drummer (David Kemper) or hide in procrastination which is another way of saying, Fuck You. The Marin mafia holds a firm grip on access and money. Ask Brent.
Lastly, I did not know that one of VW health problems was depression or of his suicide attempt on the tour bus. He must have been mortified when he came to his senses (and thankful he didn't die). The stigma society, even us, places on such illnesses or there consequences is heavy.
I wrote mortified then thankful, as an example of the confused thinking that brings a mind to the seeming inevitability of self destruction. At the end of VW homepage is something I'll pass on,
"Please, if you are suffering from depression, or know somebody who is, seek help for them or yourself. There is hope. Visit the National Institute on Mental Health for more information."

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Feb 22, 2011 8:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Called out - Remind me not to post after a 10 hour shift and no beer...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Feb 23, 2011 8:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Oh, I have never written a post that I later regretted. ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/cys5q2

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Feb 21, 2011 7:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Ouch!

If you had the nerve to get-up on stage and perform just what exactly would your performance be?

Look, the Dead felt good about Vinnie, we who knew him felt good about Vinnie, and if Joan Osbourne was available to hire in September 1990 that would have been a good thing as well!

Jerry never got over Keith & Donna let alone Brent Mydland. They, (GD Productions) placed a watchdog on Brent during the 1990 tour. This morphed into a comfort zone upon his return home to Lafayette CA, 07/26/90.

GD Productions for all they did well, did many things upon futher thought, they could have performed differently.

Dylan is quoted as saying; anyone who has the nerve to get-up on stage and perform has my respect.

Every weave in the tapestry is significant.

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Poster: Jack o' Roses Date: Feb 21, 2011 8:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Ouch!

Amen!

Vince was There- whether one likes it now or not. ...& mental illnesses *will be shown* to have a physical basis, given time (e.g., see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?term=PMID%3A%2020062721&;holding=ucsflib&otool=cdlotool&cmd=search&db=pubmed). Too bad he didn't find the proper help during this life. Ahh, there's just too much to work out in one life(, but isn't that what reincarnation is all about?)

And if you, the reader, are sad & blue check out Sceletium tortuosum, a plant from South Africa with centuries of safe use documented by the W.Europeans (& likely millenia of safe use before) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sceletium_tortuosum; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/01/AR2010100102328.html. It changed my life in a permanent, beneficial way in a month or so a year ago-& doesn't require chronic daily use...

I pray that one day all illnesses will be looked upon with the same level & type compassion. Call a friend or family member with an illness (physical or mental) today & spread a little love (& think of the GD KB players' struggles when you do).

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Poster: edgehead 2 Date: Feb 22, 2011 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

"Anyway, I never liked the Vince years and NEITHER DID THE BAND" = presumptuous crap. Keep this kind of bullshit to yourself. Vince was not great but comments like this are utterly pointless…

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Feb 22, 2011 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Geez, yeah, it's a little harsh to complain about somebody wishing the guy Happy Birthday.

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Poster: JerseyMark Date: Feb 22, 2011 11:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

When Vince joined the Dead, the band sucked and the scene sucked. And imho, Vince never fit in. But you cant blame Vince for what was going on at the time. The 1990's (with a few exemptions) were the worst years in GD history.

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Poster: edgehead 2 Date: Feb 22, 2011 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Oh, good grief. Ya, the 1990 Spring and Summer tours were terrible...It's a real shame they didn't just stop evolving at whatever year you deem best....

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Poster: BataviaSparky Date: Feb 23, 2011 9:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

"the 1990 Spring and Summer tours were terrible."

HUH? I hope you don't mean musically, as I and many others feel that the music was as compelling as any produced post '77.

As for Vinnie, I and friends rushed to "Cleveland" (actually Richfield) in anticipation of Vince joining the band, and wanting to hear the new sound, even though I was heartbroken at the loss of Brent. Just the excitement of the new sound and what the band would do as far as switching up the setlists, trying new songs, etc., was enough to make me truly psyched.

I gotta tell ya, although Vince barely knew the songs, and was at times tentative and made many mistakes, those two Richfield shows IMO, WERE THE BEST SHOWS THE DEAD DID WITH VINCE WELNICK AS THE ONLY KEYBOARD PLAYER. I think so, anyway. Maybe its because he was tentative and stayed back in the mix, but i really think the band stepped up big those two nights, and the combo of heartfelt tribute to Brent, excitement of playing with someone new, and the crowd's as well as Vince's energy, made for two very unique and special shows that will always remain in my memory as two of those special nights with the band and my 20,000 closest friends.

We knew we were witnessing a once in a lifetime thing, as the MSG shows after had Hornseby (who I think was overrated and his sound never really fit in all that well with the Dead. Sure, he was good and he explored and pushed Jer, yayda, yayda, but the fiddle and the corny side of him, well, not my favorite, that's for sure), then later when it was just Vince again he had started to step up, which was not his strong point and did not really help in that he never could salvage a show the way brent could. You know, when the persian was good and the drummers were bored and Bob was Bob and Brent just stood up (figuratively) and took over the show, carrying it.

To wrap this ramble, Vince wasn't too bad, certainly ain't the sole reason the 90's blew, and gets a bad wrap that is truly undeserved. I met him in Memphis and he was a humble, down to earth person. Happy Birthday, brother!

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Poster: edgehead 2 Date: Feb 24, 2011 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

That was sarcasm directed toward JerseyMark's post indicating that "When Vince joined the Dead, the band sucked and the scene sucked." IMHO, all of 1990 was fantastic and 1991 was had some of their peak moments as well. (see 4/7/91) e.

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Poster: Ridge8649 Date: Feb 21, 2011 8:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Listening to this TDIH on what would have/should have been Vinny's 60th ... Better to be thankful for the good stuff, because it was pretty rare post-Brent.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd91-02-21.sbd.miller.22308.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Pig Street ! Date: Feb 22, 2011 3:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

The Grateful Dead WERE musicians, not Mental Health Professionals. They were slack with intervening a members problems, Pig, Jer, Brent and Vince were examples where the Band PLAYED and did not want to deal with the erratic behaviors associated with their members. Yes there was an intervention done on Jer around 85' that Jer blew off, it left the band waiting for the fatal call as Mickey once was quoted.Jer was the king of procrastination, he left the dirty work of breaking up with woman to others and did not say to his mates "get it together" as BRUCE did in 91' after seeing Jer slide back into the dope zone.
They were who they were, Vince was not Pig nor Brent, he was Vince, not one of the famous players but still one of the boyz, let him rest in peace.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Feb 23, 2011 10:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Capt, I see where you are coming from on some level. I'm not going tot get into a Vince bashing, especially since I'm not a big fan, but I will say this about the guy. I think in 1994 and 1995 he was probably the only band member who wanted to be out there on a night to night basis. I really think he cared more about the GD during this time than the rest of the guys. say what you want about the arrangement of here Comes Sunshine or the Beatles covers at least he was trying to keep things fresh. Hell he was the one who pushed for St Stephen to return. Personally I wish he progressed more than he did during his 5 year period, especially with a year and a half grace period under Hornsby.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Feb 21, 2011 8:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re:Ouch, indeed

the band never liked Vince...hell they hired him and played on stage with him from 9/7/90 - 7/9/95. He also performed in the first Phil Lesh and Friends show(9/24/94). After Jerry's death, Vince played with Ratdog and the Mickey Hart Band. It appears "the band" may have held Vince in a little higher regard than you imagined. And as far as the fans are concerned, Vince's obituary included the following quote:
"But he was largely unfamiliar with the Grateful Dead's music when he joined in 1990. Years later he recalled that he was so nervous he could barely play at his first show, in Cleveland, but was quickly put at ease when the audience gave him a warm welcome."

Following a series of physical, and mental, problems "the band" did seem to turn their backs on Vince, which kinda sucks.

So, "Happy Birthday Vince" RIP brother.


This post was modified by user unknown on 2011-02-22 04:27:03

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Poster: snori Date: Feb 22, 2011 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Re:Ouch, indeed

For what it's worth I'll just remember the enjoyment I got from the many times I saw him with the Tubes. He was part of a group that was clearly having a lot of fun which they shared with their audience. Here's to ya - RIP Vince.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Feb 21, 2011 7:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Vince? (Are They Kidding)

Who's Vince?